Reflecting (revision)

This is a serious poetry forum not a "love-in". Post here for more detailed, constructive criticism.
Post Reply
User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Reflecting (revision)

Post by JJWilliamson » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:00 pm

Celts migrated:
Galician invasion
revealed in the mirror

Original

Ancient Celts migrate:
Galician invasion
revealed in our mirror
Last edited by JJWilliamson on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Long time a child and still a child

1lankest
Preternatural Poster
Preternatural Poster
Posts: 1706
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Reflecting

Post by 1lankest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:11 pm

A haiku? Do the syllables work?

It’s clever - mirror of historical trends and forces.

Daily Mirror? Tabloid take on immigration, or parody?

Interesting piece, JJ.

L

Charles
Prolific Poster
Prolific Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:06 pm
Location: Reading, England

Re: Reflecting

Post by Charles » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:56 am

Hi JJ.


Just to say I enjoyed this. Got me pondering on the meaning too. My first thought was that it was a reflection on an ethnic mix staring back at one in a mirror perhaps? Only that can't be right because aren't Galicians Celts? I know how many people (myself excluded of course :lol: ) don't like to explain their poetry, but I am curious.

User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Reflecting

Post by JJWilliamson » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Thank you very much, Luke and Charles, for giving this one the once over. Appreciated.
1lankest wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:11 pm
A haiku? Do the syllables work? ...Yes, it's a haiku. Thanks for noticing. :) I'm no expert when it comes to haiku, but you raise an interesting point. The 7,5,7 syllable haiku is often challenged by modern haiku writers (I'm merely dipping my toes) and current thinking, in some quarters, has the western haiku between 13 and 14 syllables. It involves the difficulties encountered when translating Japanese morae into English syllables. The syllable isn't a true reflection of the morae. Having said that I think I have 18 syllables, depending on how many you attribute to "Galician". I have a couple of ideas for revisions, though. Good point.

It’s clever - mirror of historical trends and forces. ...It is, in its own way, yes.

Daily Mirror? Tabloid take on immigration, or parody? ...Ah, an interesting take and more than valid. I've tried to condense some thoughts and suspicions into a haiku. I have a Mediterranean/Spanish look and have often wondered why so many Scots and Irish have the same features. The Scotsman (newspaper) carried an interesting article about Galician and Celtic migration/invasion about 2,000 years ago. The Independent asserted that the Celts descended from Spanish fishermen. A common theory is that sailors from the wrecked Spanish Armada survived the storms and settled along the coast of both countries. So, as I age, I look in the mirror and wonder.

Interesting piece, JJ.

L
Charles wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:56 am
Hi JJ.


Just to say I enjoyed this. Got me pondering on the meaning too. My first thought was that it was a reflection on an ethnic mix staring back at one in a mirror perhaps? ...That's absolutely spot on, Charles. I'm gratified. See above reply to Luke.

Only that can't be right because aren't Galicians Celts? ...Yes indeed. I'm not differentiating between the Galicians and Celts, more pointing to their origins. I hadn't spotted the potential confusion. Nothing new there. :)

I know how many people (myself excluded of course :lol: ) don't like to explain their poetry, but I am curious. ...Sometimes I have no option. :lol:
Thanks again for the kind comments.

Best to both

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

Antcliff
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6599
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:35 am
Location: At the end of stanza 3

Re: Reflecting

Post by Antcliff » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:16 pm

Greetings, JJ

I also enjoyed it and read it in the same way as Charles.

If I were quibbling...and hey, why not?..."Ancient" might seem redundant when applied to Celts. Okay, we may say Celts are still around, but it is bit of a stretch because we all know it is an old classification. If someone shouted "The Celts are invading", we would be a bit puzzled, wondering whether we had wandered into a film set.

Not much of a crit, I know. Downright feeble. I apologise. :D

Seth
We fray into the future, rarely wrought
Save in the tapestries of afterthought.
Richard Wilbur

User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Reflecting

Post by JJWilliamson » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:19 am

Greetings to you too, Seth

Nice to see you floating around again.
Antcliff wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:16 pm
Greetings, JJ

I also enjoyed it and read it in the same way as Charles. ...Ah, that's good to know. The general idea IS coming through.

If I were quibbling...and hey, why not?..."Ancient" might seem redundant when applied to Celts. Okay, we may say Celts are still around, but it is bit of a stretch because we all know it is an old classification. If someone shouted "The Celts are invading", we would be a bit puzzled, wondering whether we had wandered into a film set. ...An interesting point. I felt the term "Celt" kind of had a modern interpretation, given the resurgence of interest possibly generated by Ancestry.com and the like. We don't, however, talk about modern Celts, so your point certainly has merit. Something to ponder.

Not much of a crit, I know. Downright feeble. I apologise. :D ...Ha! Not at all.

Best

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

ray miller
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 6535
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am

Re: Reflecting

Post by ray miller » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:09 am

It's not about the influx of second-rate Spanish footballers into the Scottish Football League, then? Still, Galician make-up/ revealed in our mirror?
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Reflecting

Post by JJWilliamson » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:08 am

Thanks, Ray
ray miller wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:09 am
It's not about the influx of second-rate Spanish footballers into the Scottish Football League, then? ...Yes, It IS!!! And there was me thinking I'd missed the mark. :)

Still, Galician make-up/ revealed in our mirror? ...I must check my make-up bag. Lost me a bit, there, Ray.
Best

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

ray miller
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 6535
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am

Re: Reflecting (revision)

Post by ray miller » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:30 am

Make-up - the composition or constitution of something. That's the sense I meant it in.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Reflecting (revision)

Post by JJWilliamson » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:39 am

ray miller wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:30 am
Make-up - the composition or constitution of something. That's the sense I meant it in. ...Slaps head and smiles. Got you now, and it's a definite possibility. :)



JJ
Long time a child and still a child

1lankest
Preternatural Poster
Preternatural Poster
Posts: 1706
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Reflecting (revision)

Post by 1lankest » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:28 am

Better. The modern echoes are more salient now you dropped ‘ancient’.

L

User avatar
JJWilliamson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3297
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Reflecting (revision)

Post by JJWilliamson » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:07 am

Thanks, Luke, for looking at this poem again. Appreciated.

As with just about every haiku I write I seem to go round and round the houses
trying all sorts of configurations. :)

I tried this one:

Celts on the move:
Galician migration
revealed in my mirror

I wasn't keen on the double 'm' alliteration following so soon after 'move and migration', so I looked at 'our' and eventually the bland 'the'.
THEN, ignored it altogether and wrote something else. :)
1lankest wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:28 am
Better. The modern echoes are more salient now you dropped ‘ancient’. ...Yes, it was a given and therefore superfluous to requirements. Pleased it reads like an improvement. Thanks for letting me know.

L
Best

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

1lankest
Preternatural Poster
Preternatural Poster
Posts: 1706
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Reflecting (revision)

Post by 1lankest » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:57 am

No prob, Jj, it’s an effective poem.

Luke

Post Reply