Hands Down - no. 2

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Hands Down - no. 2

Post by penguin » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:00 pm

Revision

I heard the sniffles start
before halfway, I thought.
We broke with one heart
then rose to applaud.

Sure, I’d like to swing a right
at this tightfisted state
after watching the demise
of I, Daniel Blake.

Just like ten years before
and Fahrenheit 9/11.
We stood for Michael Moore
and haven’t learnt our lesson.

Audiences giving
congrats all around,
but the other side are winning
hands down.

Original



Sure, I’d like to pick a fight
with the world and its face
after watching the demise
of I, Daniel Blake.

Their sniffles had begun
before halfway, I thought.
I saw what would come
then rose to applaud.

Just like 2004
and Fahrenheit 9/11.
We stood for Michael Moore
and haven’t learnt our lesson.

It’s an end, not a beginning;
stop that laudatory round.
The other side are winning
hands down.
Last edited by penguin on Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:32 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Hands Down

Post by k-j » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:32 pm

Can't argue with the sentiment.

Bit confused who the "her" in line 5 is. Your partner or someone in the film.

"Fist"/"finish" doesn't rhyme like the others.
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Re: Hands Down

Post by penguin » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Thanks, k-j. Corrections made.

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Re: Hands Down

Post by David » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:26 pm

I haven't seen the film - either of them, in fact - but I recognise the situation. I think it's excellent.

Cheers

David

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by penguin » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:18 pm

Thanks, David. It's a good film, worth watching, even if the ending can be seen coming before the adverts have finished. God, I'm sick of this world, though, every day a defeat, it feels like life has somehow become Villa's final Premiership season.

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Antcliff » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:30 pm

Greetings

I haven't seen the film and feel a strong urge not to. As you say, it would make me feel like a member of that Villa side. My heart let me down at a point in my life and I suspect it would feel too close.

Yes, the last line makes it for me. They are.

My only query....not exactly a quibble...is over "wrought". I think I grasp what is intended in that line. But if they break once wrought, doesn't that imply that the job wasn't a good un? That failure through fragility may be intended, okay. I'm really just checking if that this was a intended implication.

Sorry I only have this rather blacksmithy point.

Seth
We fray into the future, rarely wrought
Save in the tapestries of afterthought.
Richard Wilbur

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by penguin » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:37 am

Thanks, Seth. The stuff about the hearts breaking is just to show that empathy was attained. I'd already removed Once wrought, in my head at least, and there's a few other minor adjustments.

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by David » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:23 pm

Can I just say IPTO? I know I do that, to the point of self-parody (hi Mac!), but there are usually sound reasons for it.

I think you've lost something in your revision.

Cheers

David

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by penguin » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:23 am

David wrote:Can I just say IPTO? I know I do that, to the point of self-parody (hi Mac!), but there are usually sound reasons for it.

I think you've lost something in your revision.

Cheers

David
Thanks, David. Where do you think the revision is worse?

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Ros » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:31 am

David wrote:Can I just say IPTO? I know I do that, to the point of self-parody (hi Mac!), but there are usually sound reasons for it.

I think you've lost something in your revision.

Cheers

David
I agree. I think the original first verse first has more punch than starting with the sniffles. And the original last verse was stronger. 'Audiences' seems very generic and distancing.
One of my friends is an actor in this film.

Ros
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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by ray miller » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:28 am

Thanks, Ros. Yes, I can see how the original has a better start, I'll go back to that. Not so sure about the last verse, probably try summat completely different. What part did your friend play?
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Crayon » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:15 pm

ray miller wrote:Thanks, Ros. Yes, I can see how the original has a better start, I'll go back to that. Not so sure about the last verse, probably try summat completely different. What part did your friend play?
So ray miller is penguin, and penguin is ray miller? Are double identities common around here? Is anyone else ray miller and penguin?


penraymillerguin - This poem needs a movie spoiler warning.
Round our way, "the sniffles" means one has the symptoms of a head cold.
Why "I thought"? The narrator's doubt raises questions and mistrust.
Maybe: swing a left. [thinking politically]
The adjective tight-fisted is wrong and inadequate for the right-wing state's ideological abuses and systematic neglect.
Nothing is "just like ten years before".
The word "congrats" sounds stupid.
Maybe: still winning.


This is a nation of hypocrites.
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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by ray miller » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:17 am

Dear Mr Crayon, It's true, penguin and I are very close - but there's nothing fishy about it. The thing is, ever since the incident with the popcorn and the usherette I'm not allowed in my local cinema. So penguin acts as my eyes and ears. And they love him, of course. He gets free ice creams and his own special hammock. He asked for haddock, he got hammock. Is he happy? No, he comes back complaining that the film wasn't in black and white and Charlie Chaplin wasn't in it, yet again. And because he's the one who saw the film, he insists on credit for the poem. Well, no more anyhow, we've just had a row about him always flipping the TV channel over to Yesterday. I'm giving him the cold shoulder. That's 3 he's got.

Well, Mr Crayon, to the poem. It's a good job penguin's not read your comments, he's a bit sensitive.
Maybe sniffling, but sniffles, sniffling are common parlance in these parts for responding lachrymosely in the cinema.

Why "I thought"? The narrator's doubt raises questions and mistrust. - Would you take a penguin's word for it?

Maybe: swing a left. [thinking politically] - right is for the rhyme, of course, but left/death just came to me!

.The adjective tight-fisted is wrong and inadequate for the right-wing state's ideological abuses and systematic neglect. - Couldn't agree more, but it's got the right number of syllables.

Nothing is "just like ten years before". - some things are different, some the same. What's precisely the same is those already converted rising to applaud the preacher while the vast majority have stopped going to church.

The word "congrats" sounds stupid. - Really?

This is a nation of hypocrites.
- I get the impression this is less so, that many people are glad of the opportunity to reveal their true colours.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Crayon » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:28 pm

ray miller wrote:Dear Mr Crayon, It's true, penguin and I are very close - but there's nothing fishy about it. The thing is, ever since the incident with the popcorn and the usherette I'm not allowed in my local cinema. So penguin acts as my eyes and ears. And they love him, of course. He gets free ice creams and his own special hammock. He asked for haddock, he got hammock. Is he happy? No, he comes back complaining that the film wasn't in black and white and Charlie Chaplin wasn't in it, yet again. And because he's the one who saw the film, he insists on credit for the poem. Well, no more anyhow, we've just had a row about him always flipping the TV channel over to Yesterday. I'm giving him the cold shoulder. That's 3 he's got.

Well, Mr Crayon, to the poem. It's a good job penguin's not read your comments, he's a bit sensitive.
Maybe sniffling, but sniffles, sniffling are common parlance in these parts for responding lachrymosely in the cinema.

Why "I thought"? The narrator's doubt raises questions and mistrust. - Would you take a penguin's word for it?

Maybe: swing a left. [thinking politically] - right is for the rhyme, of course, but left/death just came to me!

.The adjective tight-fisted is wrong and inadequate for the right-wing state's ideological abuses and systematic neglect. - Couldn't agree more, but it's got the right number of syllables.

Nothing is "just like ten years before". - some things are different, some the same. What's precisely the same is those already converted rising to applaud the preacher while the vast majority have stopped going to church.

The word "congrats" sounds stupid. - Really?
penraymillerguin - I don't understand why you've replied with such twaddle regarding your double identity, and other points. Or why you've addressed me as Mr Crayon.

You could change "tightfisted" to something such as 'punitive', to make it less whiney and symptomatic, and more damning.

Yes, using "congrats" makes the narrator sound like a vacuous generation-Y twit or prancing media tit. But then, more importantly, who exactly are the audiences congratulating?
ray miller wrote:This is a nation of hypocrites. - I get the impression this is less so, that many people are glad of the opportunity to reveal their true colours.
I think it's still as much hypocrisy as it's ever been (at least since universal suffrage) because the majority of those who vote Conservative would not wish to live without all the institutions, statutes and rights which the Tories have tried their utmost to obstruct since the Great Reform Act of 1832. (And before.)

The majority of Conservative voters - those hypocrites, the halfwits, the heinous lickspittles, and the proto-fascists - depend upon and expect socialist values, and yet they readily swallow Tory lies:
"A Country That Works For Everyone"
- ooh, that sounds nice - we can pretend we're not bastards voting for bastards.
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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by ray miller » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:51 am

To be perfectly honest, I just can't be bothered with this any more. It's time for me - and the penguin - to take the exit.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Ros » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:21 pm

Crayon wrote:
The majority of Conservative voters - those hypocrites, the halfwits, the heinous lickspittles, and the proto-fascists - depend upon and expect socialist values, and yet they readily swallow Tory lies:
Personally I think this sort of demonising of and generalising about 'them' (ie, those who hold views opposing your own, no matter what those views are) is a large part of the problem we're in.

Ros
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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Crayon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:48 pm

ray miller wrote:To be perfectly honest, I just can't be bothered with this any more. It's time for me - and the penguin - to take the exit.
ray 'penguin' miller - Oh, OK then. Sorry you're not feeling receptive to feedback.

BTW, Fahrenheit 9/11 was twelve years before, not ten.
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Re: Hands Down - no. 2

Post by Crayon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:53 pm

Ros wrote:
Crayon wrote:
The majority of Conservative voters - those hypocrites, the halfwits, the heinous lickspittles, and the proto-fascists - depend upon and expect socialist values, and yet they readily swallow Tory lies:
Personally I think this sort of demonising of and generalising about 'them' (ie, those who hold views opposing your own, no matter what those views are) is a large part of the problem we're in.

Ros
Ros - I agree with you in principle, and that's why I've not done that here. You've only partly quoted me, and then misrepresented my comments, which are not "demonising" and "generalising" about "them" or "those who hold views opposing your own, no matter what those views are".

I specifically accused those who support socialist institutions, statutes and rights (share my views), and yet who vote Conservative, of having a particular fault: hypocrisy. And then I also named three distinct subsets within that group of hypocrites: halfwits, lickspittles, and proto-fascists.

Would you agree that it's hypocrisy to support, or to claim to support, socialist values - such as universal suffrage, gender equality, racial equality, workers' rights, the welfare state, equality for the disabled, eduction for all, healthcare for all, justice for all, affordable housing, affordable energy, safe energy, environmental welfare, affordable public transport, eradication of child poverty - but to then vote for a political party that has obstructed and repeatedly opposed all of those things?

BTW, do you think the 'problem' you've highlighted - demonising and generalising 'them' - is evident in the poem's phrase "the other side"?
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