The Mist (V2 modified)

[Antcliff]

rolls in, hangs over the heather,
and on these evenings
our landscape feels like an aftermath,

no victors of the battle,
everything waiting for the corbies,
to pick the eyes;

it is meaningless, it is beautiful –
and we must hold these
two thoughts, together somehow.

Perhaps, like the land and water,
they can only seem to fit,
but the mist says otherwise.





v1
rolls in, hangs over the heather,
and on these evenings
our landscape feels like an aftermath,

no victors of the battle,
everything waiting for the rooks,
to pick the eyes;

it is meaningless, it is beautiful –
and we must hold these
two thoughts together somehow.

Like the land and water,
perhaps they only seem to fit,
the mist saying otherwise.


v1
rolls in, hangs over the heather,
and on these evenings
our landscape feels like an aftermath

no victors of the battle,
no birds, as yet,
everything waiting for the hoodies,
to pick the eyes;

it is meaningless, it is beautiful –
and we must hold these
two thoughts together somehow.

Like the land and water,
perhaps they only seem to fit,
the mist saying otherwise.

[Macavity]

I like the way the title rolls in to the poem. S2, especially the hoodies lines, didn't have the same feel as the other stanzas. The rest I loved.

mac

[Antcliff]

Thanks Mac,
helpful...hmm that stanza..I can see how it differs in tone, more gothic perhaps.

I realise I had forgotten other use of the expression "hoodies"...I was thinking of crows, called "hoodies" around here. However, I think perhaps I should change.

seth

[Macavity]

called "hoodies" around here.

Always a difficult choice: local colour; common usage.Interesting to know what others think.

Would the rooks be picking the eyes of the victims rather than the victors?

I'm still wondering if you need to specify what the 'aftermath' could be? Perhaps you wanted to anchor the verses with some concrete image? I think the poem functions without stanza two: a poem that reminded me of Keats notion of negative capability:

'I mean Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties. Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason.'

http://www.keatsian.co.uk/negative-capability.htm

mac

[David]

I recognise the hoodies - or huidies? - but I can see that the modern urban meaning intrudes somewhat. Also, is the original - or only secondary? - meaning of "aftermath" a bit awkward too? Perhaps the following "battle" removes that ambiguity.

I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how the meaningless and the beautiful are opposites (if they are). S4 is really nice, though.

Lots of questions! I'll get there yet!

Cheers

David

[Antcliff]

Mac,
I've been coming around to your view...why not axe st.2? You are right. Yes, partly there because of a concern with concrete images, since my mind drifts away from such things. But as you say..
Thanks for the Keats ref. Had not run across that, but you are right indeed, certainly in that area. Interesting.
And local colour. I am conflicted on that. Wider audience vs. loss of colour. I suspect in most cases we should go with the richer more colourful language. I attach my favourite of the moment, the great classic of "British Modernism" or, more helpfully, one of the greatest rants in poetry. He threw everything at it. I love it. Do you know it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cZ3hm2e0S4


David,
thanks..hmm. I had not known about that other meaning..I wonder if it is now so unfamiliar that I needn't be worried. Although you have me worried now.
Of course if the incompatibility/or compatibility were very clear there would be no point in such a poem..(but for me the reality of beauty requires that some things merit a kind of appreciation, and how can we explain the "should" in a world in which..o enough of me..going on). I will be pondering whether it is the best pairing for my purposes.It may not be.

Perhaps the "huidies" spelling is an option, yes,...good idea.

Haiku from now on.

thanks again.
seth

[Nash]

Nice work, Seth.

I'm reading this as a delicate, existential contemplation. I like the use of the mist blurring the edges between land and water as a simile for a wider reaching obfuscation.

Definitely prefer rooks to hoodies...in more ways than one.

Does it need some punctuation at the end of S1.

A very light touch on this one, I like it.

Cheers,
Nash.

[Magpie Jane]

Oh, this is terribly good, Seth. A strangely precise evocation of mist, in every imaginable sense of that word.

You know, when I first read "hoodies", I thought you meant hooded gulls or crows. So your newly introduced rooks come as no surprise.

The whole thing is lovely fertiliser for reflection.

Jane

[dedalus]

Beautiful until that closing line -- "the mist says otherwise". Somehow, no.

[Antcliff]

Thanks Nash,
glad that core comparison come across. Very nice to hear. I'll certainly take "delicate"..thanks for it.
yeh, comma had been lost
And hoodies. Do you remember another poem on mist a while back...at first called "In the Bog"? You and Vince pointed out the alternative meaning..and made me think again. That was at the back of my mind when I thought.."oh, hoodies, there is another meaning".

Jane,
I am pleased...a "precise evocation of mist in every sense"...I will certainly take that. I live just off the water, so it has become quite a presence to me.
(p.s. I have ordered that Wild Places book you mentioned)

Brendan!,
thanks, welcome,..thanks for that "beautiful" (albeit with your caveat). Will ponder that last line.
Good to hear from you.

Thanks all,
seth

[Elphin]

Hello Seth

I am partial to the old hoodies myself - [url]http://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.phpf=3&t=12326&hilit=Sunday+after+saturday+/[url].

Rooks seems quite an anglified word for this setting. Would you use the vernacular "craws"? I always think it much more descriptive than crows or rooks -- more violent.

Anyway back to the poem -- I wish I had written it, perfect tone and perfect combination of the physical and the contemplative. Plaudits.

If I am picking this up correctly you are saying that beautiful and meaningless can co-exist and while they may be considered as separate (like land and water) they co-exist in the "mist". Wonderful idea. I am not sure your sentence structure is helping get make the idea clear -- I had to re-read several times to get it (my limitations perhaps). Would this structure be clearer.

it is meaningless, it is beautiful –
and we must hold these
two thoughts, together somehow

like the land and water.
Perhaps they dont' seem to fit,
but the mist says otherwise.

Of course I may have missed the point entirely.

Thoughts offered as always to use or ditch -- as thought appropriate

elph

[Antcliff]

Elphin,
very helpful and welcome. Thanks for it.

(...can't seem to find your hoodie poem though!.)

Craws....that is a good idea. More faithful to the setting that inspired it. I think I will be taking that.

On the other suggestion, I have been pondering along the lane and I think I will take the "but".

This was the orginal ending.

it is meaningless, it is beautiful –
and we must hold these
two thoughts together somehow.

Like the land and water,
perhaps they can only seem to fit,
the mist saying otherwise.

I'm after a slight ambiguity. I wanted to say that the (needed) thoughts can fit together...with the mist saying (by showing) it is so. Hooray. And yet it may be that the fit is gained by a certain kind of blurring of underlying facts...as mist does in case of land and sea. So the mist is the subject of poem, an example of beauty+meaningless + an illustration of how this is (perhaps still rather ambiguosly) obtained. So I have asked a lot of the mist.

All of which is probably more explanation than you would want.

Cheers,
Seth

[Elphin]

Seth

I think that new ending works very well.

On my hoodie poem, it was written in response to one of David's -- "Saturday"

Sunday
(after David’s Saturday)

blackens in like a hooded crow
and caws to all her congregations
for abstinence and attention

she is a lady of can't
a growing-elderly aunt on an empty pew
scolding her errant nephew

who takes his sport so seriously

that he becomes ever more inclined
to recant their social pact
that this be her day

she will not forget that

Shameless plug, I know. The Western Isles were on my mind.

elph

[Antcliff]

Elphin
super poem.

Iain Crichton Smith would have like the theme of "Sunday".

I especially liked the close..a hint of menace at end
and the can't/cant play.

seth

[Nash]

I think Elphin's suggestion of 'craw' is a good one. But am I right in thinking that 'corbie' is a Scottish term for crow? Just thought that it keeps the sound of the original 'hoodie' without the double meaning.

[Elphin]

Nash

Good shout on "Corbie". Are you familiar with Twa Corbies -

The Twa Corbies

This story is of two crows, or ravens, discussing the body of a knight that is lying behind a wall. The description of the deceased suggests that he is a good, handsome and noble man - you make your own judgement.
As I was walking all alane,
I heard twa corbies making a mane;
The tane unto the t'other say,
'Where sall we gang and dine to-day?'

'In behint yon auld fail dyke,
I wot there lies a new slain knight;
And naebody kens that he lies there,
But his hawk, his hound, and lady fair.

'His hound is to the hunting gane,
His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame,
His lady's ta'en another mate,
So we may mak our dinner sweet.

'Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane,
And I'll pike out his bonny blue een;
Wi ae lock o his gowden hair
We'll theek our nest when it grows bare.

'Mony a one for him makes mane,
But nane sall ken where he is gane;
Oer his white banes, when they are bare,
The wind sall blaw for evermair.'

elph

[Nash]

Aah, of course! Cheers Elph, I was wondering where I'd got the word from, it's an old folk standard isn't it?

[Antcliff]

Nash, Elph

just the job! Though tempted by Elph's suggestion, I rather missed the sound of hoodies...and now the very thing. Corbies it is (at least twa). Thanks for the nod Elph.

Good shout Nash..thanks for it.

seth

[David]

The end product is indeed a lovely thing, and I like it a lot, but I still retain my stubborn low-browed inability to see how the beautiful and the meaningless are opposites. Still, as you say (don't you?), perhaps that's the charm of it, and the idea certainly (for me) has a sort of misty quality that's entirely appropriate.

Don't mind my mithering. Very nice poem.

Cheers

David

[Antcliff]

David,
Not mithering, or low brow.

I think that beauty+meaningless are compatible...the mist falling into both categories. And this is what mist says in final line. But I suppose I took myself also to be hinting at a wider case (with start of stanza 3). In that wider case (life), I also believe they are compatible, although this (though only sometimes ) feels less clear.

However, whether the beauty/meaningless pairing is the right one for my purpose is still very much on my mind..right to push me there. Thanks.

Seth

[Antcliff]

has a sort of misty quality that's entirely appropriate.

And of course happy to hear that it has this quality. Hooray.

seth

[Elphin]

Nash

I think I am right in saying Burns wrote this version but that it is based on a traditional ballad that Burns "tidied" up.

I think.....

elph