Cares Of The Heart

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churinga
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Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm

A little old man lets me pass. His journey,
once gallop and track, now shuffles along.

Blonds flounce their hair and sway.
Old buildings ornament, new buildings dare.

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching,
sing grand in talk, grand in music.

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
A softness there, a purpose; cares of the heart.

I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
with many forget-me-nots, many forgive me’s.
Last edited by churinga on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by Macavity » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:41 am

hi Ross

Enjoyed the inventiveness of expression in this 'journey'.
I lie down often, my prayer wheel whirring
many forgive me’s, with many forget-me-nots.
Sonics are subjective I know, and you've probably played that possibility already.

best

mac

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:18 am

Hi Mac
I probably did try switching the last line's phrases, it was the most dificult couplet.
I think you are right, I will change it around and drop the 'with'.

regards

Ross
Last edited by churinga on Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by ray miller » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:44 am

Very nice. Some lovely lines. I'd only quibble with the middle couplet,
Birds, their hard eyes watch and watching, - comma after watch?
sing grand in talk, grand in music. - sing grand in talk just doesn't seem right, though I know what you mean.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by lotus » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:53 am

churinga wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
dear Ross

very fine p0etic brush stroke

silent lotus
“A poem should have the touch ... the way sunlight falls on Braille.” .......silent lotus

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 pm

Hi Ray and Lotus

Ray
I have fixed the punctuation as you suggested. I know what you mean about the 'grand' line.
I pronounce grand with a hard 'a' so it contrasts with the soft 'a' of talk. That is my only excuse.

Lotus
Thanks for your comment. Glad you liked the poem.

all the best

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by bjondon » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:30 pm

Hi Ross,
gentle and elegiac . . . I like the way each of the five couplets bounds across
great spaces of mind and perspective
churinga wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm
A little old man lets me pass. His journey, . . . . . the doorman to the poem could also be the N, or just in the way in a big city you notice someone like yourself and they take on a special significance
once gallop and track, now shuffles along.

Blonds flounce their hair and sway. . . . . .with both the blonds and the birds there is this benevolent distance that makes them both human and animal . . . it might work to substitute 'manes' for 'hair'.
Old buildings ornament, new buildings dare.

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching, . . .my favorite stanza
sing grand in talk, grand in music.

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
A softness there, a purpose; cares of the heart.

I lie down often, my prayer wheel whirring . . . .I'd be tempted to make wheel plural
many forgive me’s. many forget-me-nots. . . . .punctuation tricky here, I'd drop the apostrophe. Full stop in the middle a typo?
Regards, Jules

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:50 pm

Hi Jules

You are quite right, the little old man could be me, I am little and getting old, I am 70. I grew up riding horses and once galloped a racehorse so I have some affection for jockeys. I live near Royal Randwick, Sydney's premier racetrack.

I am still in two minds about this last couplet. I could re-insert the 'with' and have

I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
with many forgive me's, many forget-me-nots.


I want to suggest the prayer wheels are doing more than just dealing with forgiveness and forget-me-nots,
I think I will go with your suggestion.
And fix the typo.

Thanks for your help.

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by David » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:01 pm

It is a nice, likeable series of reflections, Ross. I think S3 is my favourite, despite the unorthodox phrasing. (Or perhaps, as one is contractually obliged to say, because of it.)

Cheers

David

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by 1lankest » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:11 pm

I quite like this.

A little old man - really?!

The imagery is great but there’s something about a series of aphorisms that niggles with me and I don’t know why.
Perhaps it’s the final couplet, ending on forget-me-not is, like the little old man, is far too hackneyed a trope.

Again, great skill and imagination but not my thing for some reason. Perhaps it’s my mood.

Luke

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:32 pm

Thanks guys..

David who are you under contract to? :D

Luke, I admit 'forget-me-nots' is contrived. I don't really include that in my prayers.
I also admit 'little old man' is nothing special. But he is real, I worry when I don't see him, he is very old and always alone.

kind regards to you both

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by NotQuiteSure » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:24 pm

.
Hi Ross,
downbeat, but in a good way :)

A little old man lets me pass. His journey,

- Do you need 'a little old man', (apart from
'little') it's basically all there in the following line.
Why not 'He lets me pass' ?
once gallop and track, now shuffles along.
- should it be 'track and gallop' ?
Is there an equine equivalent to 'shuffles' ?

Blonds flounce their hair and sway.
Old buildings ornament, new buildings dare.

- the repetition of 'buildings' is a bit of a let-down.
Maybe reverse the order of these two lines?
(Old buildings remember ?)

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching,
sing grand in talk, grand in music.

- Not doing it for me, I find the phrasing in
the second line too distracting. Also, not
sure how much it adds to the piece.

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
A softness there, a purpose; cares of the heart.


I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
with many forget-me-nots, many forgive me’s.

- The 'forget-me-nots' doesn't work well at all.
It does feel a little like these a couplet missing
from the end. Though perhaps that's intentional?
Just a suggestion:
Often I lie, my prayer wheel a whirl
of many reminders, too many forgive me's

(If it's a Tibetan wheel then maybe 'column'
for 'whirl' ?)

Regards, Not.
.

churinga
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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:45 pm

Thanks Not

As always your critique is spot on.
I posted this in a much less perceptive forum
and folks there didn't get the first couplet,
didn't understand that the little old man was an ex-jockey,
so it never occurred to me to make it more condensed.
I also agree about 'forget-me-nots' and too much repetition.
It is very useful to get help like this.

all the best

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by capricorn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Hi Ross,

I've just read NQS's reply and agree with most that was said, especially

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching,
sing grand in talk, grand in music.


I know some have said these ar their favourite lines, but I can't quite make sense of them. Sorry!


I do like the poem very much and it is worth any work you put into revision.

Eira

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:32 pm

Thanks Eira

The line you mention is saying the birds talk to each other and (to us) make music but never stop watching out for danger even when they are engaged in this. I suppose I was making a contrast to us, who as apex predators, don't have to be so alert.

Glad you liked the poem.

Welcome to the graveyard :roll: :roll: :roll:

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by capricorn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Thanks for the welcome Ross. This is the most active graveyard I've come across :lol: You might know me as Rhapsody of Rhyme from elsewhere.

I do completely understand what you mean by those 2 lines and I like the idea. I love watching/listening to birds in our garden. I think you just need to make the lines clearer. Perhaps you are trying to be overly poetic - or perhaps it's the grammar that is wrong (not sure). Perhaps change grand to grandly?

Birds, their hard eyes watch as they sing
grandly, talking in music, while watching.


Just a thought!

Thanks again for the welcome - see you around.

Eira

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:10 pm

Hi Eira

Using grand instead of grandly is deliberate, I suspect it is Irish slang, similar to people saying youse for a plural you. Bad grammar that has become vernacular speech. I maybe wrong, it just came to me when I was writing the poem. It is not Australian, I probably heard it on TV.
The somics of that couplet are also deliberate, imitating bird calls, short, repetitive phrases that suddenly end.
I do remember you.

cheers

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by capricorn » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:33 pm

You are probably right about 'grand' being Irish. We have an Irish neighbour who I think would speak like that.

Eira

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by Moth » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:52 am

Enjoyed the mood of the piece very much but was put off by the title. I realise these things are subjective but I did find it twee and cliched. Your cares of the heart come across loud and clear in the poem. A few thoughts:
A little old man lets me pass. His journey,
once gallop and track, now shuffles [along]. Enjoyed the imagery

Blonds flounce [their hair] and sway. The blonds are male? Would they flounce? Ok possibly, but more likely female, blond suggests hair
Old buildings ornament, new [buildings] dare. Not keen on close proximity repetition, tighter without? Could also bring additional meaning.

Birds, their hard eyes [watch, and] watching, as above
sing grand in talk, [grand] in music. I don't see a problem with grand, providing there's only one :)

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
A softness there, a purpose; [cares of the heart.] The cliche ruins an otherwise beautiful couplet

I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
[with many] forget-me-nots, [many] forgive me’s. I picture N on a prayer mat among the flowers. Again, I'd drop the words in brackets for a tighter read
to be totally honest... whenever you feel you really shouldn't write that, that's exactly what you should write.

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:56 am

Hi Moth,

I'm not sure why you think 'cares of the heart' is a cliche.
It is not a commonplace phrase in my opinion.
It's sentimental. Part of the poem is about sentiments.
I agree that there is a lot of repetition, it's a valid criticism
but if I cut it out the poem would have no melodic structure.
By blonds I meant women. Brunettes may also flounce and sway
but I am writing about what I observe, not making generalizations.

thanks for your comments

cheers

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by JJWilliamson » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:24 am

Hi, Ross

I've read the thread and found it to be most interesting. The opinions are many and varied, which is a double edged sword sometimes.
Still, I found myself nodding at this and that before eventually wondering if you needed to change much. Always a difficult one, I find,
because so much can be lost through tightening and revision, often with the impetus and rhythm being overshadowed by clarity. Nevertheless,
I'm a great fan of varied critique and revision, which accounts for my interest in the thread.

I really enjoyed the reflective nature of this poem, the delightful observations and thoughts, as if the speaker was contemplating what is, with a touch of mild melancholy as he considers his understanding. That's how it came across to me. Yet, there is also a warmth pervading each couplet, as the melancholy doesn't descend into the morose, more an understanding of the passing, with a smidgeon of the metaphysical creeping in, although that could well just be me.

It's worth noting the delightful poetic devices running through the entire poem, with internal rhyme (eg care, hair, there, their, dare, square, prayer), assonance, consonance and lovely rhythm contributing enormously to the overall impact. Very nice.

Some thoughts for your perusal:

I think the title could be strengthened, mainly because you state this in the body of the poem. Admittedly, it does point to the central premise.
churinga wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm
A little old man lets me pass. His journey, ...Would "The" instead of 'A' imply familiarity? I see you say you know him. 'A' could be anybody.
once gallop and track, now shuffles along. ...Super line.

Blonds flounce their hair and sway. ...I took this to be females.
Old buildings ornament, new buildings dare. ...This could affect your rhythm but I did wonder about classic buildings and modern/avant-garde.
EG only: "Classic buildings ornament, modern structures dare".

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching,
sing grand in talk, grand in music. ...Quite a mysterious couplet for me, although I did pretty much get your intent. Eventually.

At night squares of light dot the darkness.
A softness there, a purpose; cares of the heart. ...A part of me wants to drop 'cares' and replace it with "beats" to suggest the ongoing nature of everything, as well as a sense of belonging and affection.

I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
with many forget-me-nots, many forgive me’s. ...I read forget-me-nots as a prayer not to be forgotten. IE Please don't forget me. The allusion to the flower seemed to be a deliberate softness acting as a device, which I liked.
Well, there we have it, for better or worse. I enjoyed thinking about this poem very much. If I found this on a plane journey I'd spend many a moment enjoying and considering the content.

Great piece

JJ
Long time a child and still a child

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:56 pm

Hi JJ

Thanks for your comments. I also value critique, I don't post revisions but I work on poems for years and I also think critique has a forward effect.
I did not know forget-me-nots were a flower, I knew the phrase but had never really connected it to anything. I looked it up in the dictionary yesterday.
The littl old man was not my friend when I wrote the poem, now we say hullo when we pass in the street.
Thanks for your positive criticism, often critique is mostly negative, I suppose it's a question of expediency, one focuses on the faults and assumes the poet realizes you like the rest. I know I sometimes do that and it can seem harsh.
I usually take my title from a phase within the poem. i don't think of a poem in terms of a title, it is always an afterthpught, a conveninent tag. I really liked 'cares of the heart' when I wrote it I think it is quite original not as Moth suggested a cliche. I will probably give it a new title but keep 'cares of the heart' within the body of the poem. If people find it too sentimental I can live with that.

all the best

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by Moth » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:13 am

You're right. People do focus on the negatives - sorry for that as there is a lot about this poem I like. Cares of the heart is a phrase used in the bible, actually it might work if the reader picks up on that, I just found it over sentimental for my tastes - no right and no wrong here but it could also be considered an abstraction where as the imagery you use in the poem is not. I know I'm right about one thing though - blonde is the feminine, blond the masculine. As for the repetition if you're sending this off be aware, I had a piece returned for revision lately as I used the same word twice - a schoolgirl error they said - yet I have read many other published works that are fine with this, so it all depends on the market you're aiming for.
to be totally honest... whenever you feel you really shouldn't write that, that's exactly what you should write.

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by churinga » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:48 am

Hi Moth

I've only submitted poems to an ezine once in the last 4 years,
same with reading them, very rarely.
As for blonde/blond both are acceptable according to my dictionary and they are not gender specific.
I value your criticism, others also criticized the poem,
that's why I'm here to show off but also get told off. :lol: :roll:
Everyone here is so polite and good natured.
I was with Eratosphere for 3 years, it was like entering a nest of vipers.

all the best

Ross

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Re: Cares Of The Heart

Post by Perry » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:10 am

It's pretty clear that you are pushing the envelope of the English language a little. I saw you do that once before and felt that it didn't work at all, that it even sounded ugly. However, this is a little more successful.

By pushing the envelope, I mean (for example) using two nouns -- gallop and track -- to convey your meaning when two adjectives -- fast and purposeful -- would be clearer. In this case, though, the envelope-pushing is fairly mild, enough so that I can see it as poetic.

Some thoughts:
churinga wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm
A little old man lets me pass. His journey,
once gallop and track, now shuffles along.

Blonds flounce their hair and sway. [blonds flouncing their hair is a little clichéd]
Old buildings ornament, new buildings dare.

Birds, their hard eyes watch, and watching, [true, birds' eyes do have a hard look]
sing grand in talk, grand in music. ["grand" seems a little far-fetched to describe the chirping of birds]

At night squares of light dot the darkness. [does "squares of light" mean city lights?]
A softness there, a purpose; cares of the heart. [not sure what this line means]

I lie down often, prayer wheels whirring
with many forget-me-nots, many forgive me’s. [this stanza isn't clear to me]
I'm not sure what the meaning of the poem is, and that is exacerbated by the title, which sounds like a cliché (or the title of a soap opera -- do you have soap operas where you live?). This reminds me of another poem you posted not too long ago which was a "feel good" poem that didn't seem to have a lot of meaning. It seems to me you are trying to articulate something similar here: "life is good", "everything is as it should be", or something like that. You have posted very abstract poems before, and I think this is one of those. I have written poems myself which are all abstractions, but there has to be an underlying clear message lest the poem collapse into meaninglessness.
If I forget to come back to critique your revised poem, don't hesitate to send me a note.

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