Just about bees

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TDF
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Just about bees

Post by TDF » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:09 pm

we travelled the world
a search for gold and power
build develop grow

the invasion came
an apiary Dresden
for queen and honey

so I lie dying
a shallow grave of poppies
to be forgotten

alternate v3:
so now here we lie
passed over by young brothers
lost to the poppies



Bit of a punt this one, would love some crits. Thanks.
Tom
Last edited by TDF on Thu May 01, 2008 11:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:10 pm

Originally inspired by a pic similar to this:
Image
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Re: Just about bees

Post by Ilex » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:23 pm

I love the simple words and the images in this poem. I really enjoyed it.
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Re: Just about bees

Post by arunansu » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:10 am

Enjoyed the wonderful metaphors, reference to Dresden, and poppies etc.Only praises, no nits!

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Re: Just about bees

Post by Merlin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:06 pm

A simple poem, but I guess that's the point of it!

I think it could be improved with some punctuation...

Also possibly, consider changing these 2 lines

a search for gold and power (it's the gold and power that bugs me :mrgreen: )

a shallow grave of poppies (must be in a million poems) :shock:

I think you could improve it - for sure... :)

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:57 pm

cheers chaps, much obliged.

Merlin, thanks for thoughts.
Since they are haikus, I try to avoid punctuation.
As to the lines you dislike, I can see why. And although rather cliche, they said what I wanted in 7 sylables, so I saw no need to come up with something original. "gold and power" I thought referenced quite nicely to nectar and sunshine - the bee equivilant to human expansionist ideals. And as for the poppies line, tis true, tis certainly nothing original... although maybe it is, with a bee context? ;)

cheers for feedback.
Tom
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Re: Just about bees

Post by Merlin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:03 pm

Oops...well if that's the way one of those wacky haky's is supposed to hang , Tom, scuse my ignorance mate...

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:06 pm

no need to apologise, Merlin. and sorry if I came off short/snappy, wasn't intended... on my way to bed, very tired.

And in truth, wrt haikus, the rules vary from place/person to place/person, I've just settled on a set of rules I found and liked. Others do use punctuation for example, so you're not the first person to mention punctuation when it comes to my haikus.

edit: in fact I had forgotten I had left 2 comas in there in s1... they have to come out!

cheers for taking the time to reply.
Tom
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Re: Just about bees

Post by Merlin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:14 pm

No, you didn't come off snappy Tom...no worries , no worries at all...

That's why when I post it's in the bar :mrgreen: , ie: the the novice section......hardly go in the lounge , where the real bards are... :shock:

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Re: Just about bees

Post by Fenris » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:03 pm

Two bees or not two bees, that is the question, I guess. I like the idea, although personally I'd have avoided mentioning a grave. Do bees ever get cremated, or is that just moths?

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:26 pm

cheers Fen,

and interestingly another draft had this is athe final 3:

Now I lie dying,
Passed over by my brothers
lost to the poppies


oh and love the cremated moth idea... don;t think it happens to bees unfortuantely.
Tom
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Re: Just about bees

Post by keekee107 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:20 pm

I like this. It's a very nice, short poem. :)

I'm not really too up with haikus so I'll trust what you say, although I would have originally been inclined to agree with Merlin. To me it seemed a little odd that there were no commas in the third line of stanza 3. It jarred with me a little on read-through but as I say, I'm no haiku expert so I don't really know how valid this opinion is. :D

I liked the 'in search for gold and power' - a typical phrase reinvigorated by it's uniqueness to bees. Nice.

I also think that the last stanza could be improved. I'm not really keen on: 'shallow grave of poppies' - being a little weak and cliche compared to the impact you could have with another choice of words. For me, I would prefer a slight reworking perhaps of the original stanza 3 you have just posted. I like the reference back to the whole bee colony - with it starting with 'we', and would love it to end in a similar manner rather than 'I' as bees are afterall a great grouped species.

I'm being picky of course but I'd like to give the most constructive crit as possible. :) Lovely picture and developed idea.

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Thanks kk,
I'm no haiku expert so I don't really know how valid this opinion is.
haha, nor am I. It's just one set of rules I chose to follow. There is a lot to be said for including punctuation. Although, one thing I personally like about the lack of it is the ambiguity. It allows things to be read in different ways. It's a concept not best explored in these Haikus, though.
with it starting with 'we', and would love it to end in a similar manner rather than 'I' as bees are afterall a great grouped species.
That is a very good point, one I think I will embrace, I did intend to keep the plurality. (is that a word?)

Thanks for your thoughts.
Tom
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Re: Just about bees

Post by dl04 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:16 pm

I think the edited version is much better. The images arent so disconnected as previously.

I still dont like the poppy line though, but that's just my taste probably.
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Re: Just about bees

Post by wabbit » Thu May 01, 2008 10:53 am

Im new on here, so I dont feel qualified to comment too much on others words.

I quite like the simplicity of this, my vote would go to the 1st ending.
Criticism - The art of judging with knowledge and propriety of the beauties and faults of a literary performance. Ha ..Well I'm definitely gonna fall short there....However rules is rules.

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Re: Just about bees

Post by ray miller » Thu May 01, 2008 11:09 pm

hello tom this lack of punctuation is growing on me but maybe we could be rid of the capitals as well did e e cummings forgo capitals and punctuation or just the capitals?
lots of little subtleties in your stuff particularly liked gold and power queen and honey (country?) well done ray
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I contemplate such bitter stuff.

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Thu May 01, 2008 11:20 pm

Cheers ray, glad you're enjoying it. I am too!

As for capitals, my self-set ruleset says only use them for proper nouns/names. Although that was before I really focused on the lack of punctuation, so maybe they should go too...

The capitals in the alternate s3 were typos, now edited out.

cheers
Tom

(ps. yes, honey was a play on country)
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Re: Just about bees

Post by Brotherfergus » Fri May 02, 2008 8:27 am

I I know its about bees but I think I'd prefer it about the poppies, obviously a few changes would have to be made, namely V2 in its entirety, but it could work. The opium trade; travel the world? Power and Gold? I reckon it's half way there!
Have to agree with Ray one or the other in regards capitals/ punctuation, I'm not used to this style so I found it strange but its kind off interesting to read.
"The poet becomes a seer through a long, immense, and reasoned derangement of all the senses." - Arthur Rimbaud

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Fri May 02, 2008 1:19 pm

Oh, that's an interesting take, bf. I'd not considered that angle, thanks.
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Re: Just about bees

Post by Elphin » Tue May 06, 2008 10:03 am

Tom

I like this one a lot - very tight, good choice of words and different levels to read it on.

A couple of suggestions. In s1 you could improve the flow

we travelled the world
in search of gold and power
build develop grow

s3 works on the level of continuing the war metaphor with the poppies but it just doesnt feel right as the "bee" reading level breaks down - bees wouldnt be buried beneath poppies would they? I think you should give some thought to a different ending that keeps the bee metaphor. What happens to dead bees - I dont know - trampled underfoot/eaten by birds, do the flowers miss them helping to pollenate. Some ideas.

This could be very good with a new s3.

elphin

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Tue May 06, 2008 5:11 pm

Cheers Elphin,

Certainly some good thoughts there as I know s3 is the weak point. The revision of s3 was an attempt at building a relationship between poppy and bee ("lost to thepoppies"), as well as maintain the war imagery. It's interesting though, I've never really thought about what happens to a dead bee. I just figured it laid down wherever it was and got consumed - by weeds, plants, grass.. whatever. So the new s3 was a stab at reflecting that. But i think i will certainly keep this one on the books and revisit it.

thanks
Tom
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Re: Just about bees

Post by David » Tue May 06, 2008 5:48 pm

Hey Tom, this is probably a bit priggish of me but I'm uncomfortable with the "apiary Dresden" line - Dresden just seems like one of those images that are not to be used lightly.

I'm not saying I'm right - just letting you know it's a possible reaction. (I know it's possible, because I had it. I still think I might be wrong.)

I like the condensed compactness of your haiku approach.

Cheers

David

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Re: Just about bees

Post by TDF » Tue May 06, 2008 6:26 pm

cheers David,

You make a very valid point, one I did consider actually. The choice was influenced by me seeing a documentary about bears, in which one destroyed a bee hize to get the honey (lovely stereotype!). Point was that the hive was utterly destroyed, not broken open or smashed, but razed. But yes, I know it may seem a little extreme an image to use for bees.

Thanks
Tom
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