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In Isolation (v6?)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:47 pm
by NotQuiteSure
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v6?
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

The walls of our cells
are so thin.


_________________
v5
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin are the walls
of our cells.


_________________

v4
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin the walls are
of our cells.

_________________

v3
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin are the walls
of our cells?

_________________

v2
In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.
How thin the walls are
of our cells.

_________________

In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours'
breathing. How quickly
sound travels. How thin
are the walls of our cells.



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Re: In Isolation

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:03 pm
by Firebird
I like it, a lot. I would shorten it to:

I can hear the neighbours'
breathing.
How thin the walls are
of my cell.

But you know Not, that just me. Anyway, I really like it.

Cheers,

Tristan

PS. If it were mine, I’d just call it ‘Isolation’. The more I think about this poem the better it gets. Love it.

Re: In Isolation

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:27 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi Tristan,
glad you liked it. Intrigued by your edit (now it reads like what I can hear is the neighbours' saying
'how thing the walls ...' ) I want to keep 'our' which, I think offers a biological inference that 'my'
doesn't. So, how about ... v2?

Regards, Not



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Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:32 pm
by Firebird
Yes, for me v2 is much improved. And yes, I’d missed the ‘cells‘ implication which I like very much.

It’s a good one. It travels a long way and offers many directions to go in terms of meaning.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:16 pm
by NotQuiteSure
Firebird wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:32 pm
It’s a good one. It travels a long way and offers many directions to go in terms of meaning.
Thanks, and thanks for the suggestions.

(Wondering if 'neighbours' should be singular?)

Regards, Not

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Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:39 pm
by Firebird
Hi Not,

I think it should be singular Neighbour’s, just for clarity.

Still liking it.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:49 pm
by Firebird
Hi Not,

I might make it into two couplet stanzas. I think a pause between the first two lines and the second two lines would be good. The poem needs thinking time and slightly slowing down.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:51 pm
by Jackie
It's very haiku-like in its 2-statement form, its contemplation and its reach into the universe.

Jackie

Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:56 am
by JJWilliamson
I'm also a big fan of this one, Not, mainly because of its layering and haikuesque qualities.
I thought 'cells' was particularly inspiring.
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:47 pm
.
v2
In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours' ...Do you need 'can' ?
breathing.
How thin the walls are ...This 'are' could be moved around EG to the end of the poem or after ''thin' turning it from a statement to a question.
of our cells.

Enjoyed

JJ


_________________

In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours'
breathing. How quickly
sound travels. How thin
are the walls of our cells.



.

Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:42 am
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi Tristan, Jackie, JJ.

Tristan, two verses? OK. Rev 3 up.

Thanks Jackie, does changing the second statement to a question have an effect?

JJ, the 'can' was intended to indicate that something had recently changed.
Statemnt to question: V3. How's that?

Thanks all,

regards, Not


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Re: In Isolation (v2)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:04 am
by Firebird
Hi Not,

I’m not keep on the question form of stanza two. It sounds a bit awkward to my hear and adds little IMO. The image was more striking before and less affected. Only my opinion.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v3)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:41 pm
by Jackie
does changing the second statement to a question have an effect?
Making it a question changes the mood quite a bit, in my opinion. It implies some kind of protest or action is coming.

Jackie

Re: In Isolation (v3)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:57 pm
by Firebird
Jackie wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:41 pm
does changing the second statement to a question have an effect?
Making it a question changes the mood quite a bit, in my opinion. It implies some kind of protest or action is coming.
Yes, it does change the tone/mood a little, and I think it does imply a type of protest, but in an affected, overused way. The language sounds a little awkward/clunky and doesn’t really do enough to merit it. I also think the protest is there when it isn’t a question form. It’s just not so stark or melodramtic, shouting for a reaction.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v3)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:35 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi Jackie, Tristan.
So, two thumbs down :)
OK. How about now?

Regards, Not


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Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:09 pm
by ray miller
How thin are the walls
of our cells.

That's better rhythmically and you don't need a question mark.

Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:56 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Thanks ray,
yes, I prefer that rhythm too (had in the original).
OK ... tweaked.

Regards, Not


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Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:58 pm
by Macavity
I can hear my neighbours'
breathing. How quickly
sound travels. How thin
are the walls of our cells.
Quite liked the original myself :D One thought travels to another. I can hear the musing.


cheers

mac

Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:48 pm
by Firebird
ray miller wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:09 pm
How thin are the walls
of our cells.

That's better rhythmically and you don't need a question mark.
Tell me how that doesn’t need a question mark? IMO, it needs one.

Ray may feel the rhythm is better, but I don’t think it is right for this type of poem. I know this will sound strange, but sounding ‘poetic’ doesn’t help this type of poem IMO (I personally don’t like the sound of the question in the context of this poem). I know you will probably stay with the question now, which is fair enough, but I think it’s the wrong decision. However, whatever you decide I will still like it. Strangely, I think I prefer the original if you are going to go with the question.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:05 pm
by ray miller
Firebird wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:48 pm
ray miller wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:09 pm
How thin are the walls
of our cells.

That's better rhythmically and you don't need a question mark.
Tell me how that doesn’t need a question mark? IMO, it needs one.



Cheers,

Tristan
How sweet is the sound of the lark. You wouldn't put a question mark there, because it's pretty obvious that it's a statement, not a question. I think the same argument applies here.

Re: In Isolation (v4)

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:27 pm
by Firebird
ray miller wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:05 pm
How sweet is the sound of the lark. You wouldn't put a question mark there, because it's pretty obvious that it's a statement, not a question. I think the same argument applies here.
Yes, and it’s exactly that kind of archaic and now over-poetic diction that I think is so inappropriate here. If there’s no question mark this would be an exclamation. So you are right a question mark would not be needed. However, the standard English English way to write this type of exclamation is ‘How thin the walls are of our cells‘ (How + adjective + subject + verb). Not ‘How thin are the walls of our cell’ (How + adjective + verb + subject). I’m going off the ‘how’ structure for exclamation completely, now. Unless it’s being used in a contemporary way, like ‘How great is that‘ or ‘How lovely’, I think it just sounds too 18th century/poetic/affected.

God, I got completely confused there. As you know Ray, you were right.

Cheers,

Tristan

Re: In Isolation (v5)

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:06 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Thanks mac, just the cat these pigeons needed :)
(I'd be tempted to return to the original, but I'm taken with the spacing, even though I lose that 'thought to thought' movement - if you can figure out how to get some spaces there ...)

ray, 'how' as emphasis, that's what I was going for, but (and despite his argument to the contrary) I'm going to go with Tristan's version (v4) ... unless v6

Regards all, Not

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Re: In Isolation (v6?)

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:37 pm
by David
I like the first one. I know, unhelpful in the extreme.

Re: In Isolation (v6?)

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:01 pm
by Firebird
I like V4 & V6. It’s interesting because I think one of the things this poem shows is how different the poetic tastes are on PG, which is one of the strengths of the forum. I think I could have predicted David’s choice, but not Mac’s. Interesting. As I said, I like v1, but I think this type of poem is more effective in V4/V6’s form. I also think that the link between the thoughts is just as clear in V4/6 as it is in V1. The thought-to-thought element is still there, just not overdone IMO.

There’s a slight bit of 18th/19th century romantic in me that I can’t kill off, or V6 would be a straightforward pick for me. However, I still do like V4.

I know this probably doesn’t help.

Cheers,

Tristan

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:47 pm
.
v6?
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

The walls of our cells
are so thin.


_________________
v5
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin are the walls
of our cells.


_________________

v4
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin the walls are
of our cells.

_________________

v3
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin are the walls
of our cells?

_________________

v2
In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.
How thin the walls are
of our cells.

_________________

In Isolation

I can hear my neighbours'
breathing. How quickly
sound travels. How thin
are the walls of our cells.



.

Re: In Isolation (v6?)

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:08 am
by Macavity
v4
In Isolation


I can hear my neighbours'
breathing.

How thin the walls are
of our cells.
I like this version too: the emphasis on how, the break on are, the progression from outside to inside in that realisation; the use of space for pause/distance, where thought comes into play; the vulnerability. It's polished and publishable.
I can hear my neighbours'
breathing. How quickly
sound travels. How thin
are the walls of our cells.
I liked this too: I googled a bit on sound and speed :) ; the velocity element interested me, added another dimension to the vulnerability, nicely emphasized by that placement of quickly/thin; the distance between them/I highlighted with travels, breathing brings breathlessness, On a personal, felt level, more blood/anxiety in this one, though I think V4 is more publishable in the pristine thought.

Not sure that helps any. I would say, probably my taste, but I much prefer this kind of writing to Bush poetry. Perhaps that preference reflects my attention span :lol:

cheers

mac

Re: In Isolation (v6?)

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:47 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi David, Tristan, mac.
Thanks for the 'helpful' contributions :) Nothing may have been resolved, but the journey's been fun.
Perhaps the solution is simply to keep both the original and V4 and submit them separately? An exercise in Darwinian publishing.

Regards, Not

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