Robert Dudley - The Knot Garden (revision4)

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Robert Dudley - The Knot Garden (revision4)

Post by Macavity » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 am

revision4

Design will pleasure her: these borders
of thyme, those beds of marigold.
It was a scented, moonless night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

No wifely tears will worry deceit.
No favoured courtier's gossip to fret.
This counterfeit is safe inside
his fragrant garden. No regrets.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
the silk from under perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, his lips
- this Queen must pluck his cunning kiss.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

revision3

No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit unruffled inside
his fragrant scheming. No regrets.

Design will pleasure her: these borders
of thyme, those beds of marigold.
That rumour was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
the silk from under perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, his lips
- this Queen must pluck his cunning kiss.




revision2.

No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit is safe inside
his fragrant scheming. No regrets.

Design will pleasure her and him:
these threaded hedges will enfold
intent. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is cold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
conceit from under perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, a shiver
- this Queen must have her burning kiss.



revised


No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit is safe inside
his formal garden. No regrets.

Design will purpose him to please,
a clipped hedge will sow the cold
with thyme. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
conceit beneath the perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, she shivers
- a Queen must have her burning kiss.





original


No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No gossip breeze to fret.
This counterfeit is safe today
inside his garden. No regrets.

Symmetry will suck from clouds the light,
a clipped hedge will sow the cold
with thyme. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, withers
conceit beneath the bloom of his bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, she shivers
- a Queen must have her burning kiss.
Last edited by Macavity on Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:08 am, edited 24 times in total.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by Poet » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:41 pm

Impressive! I like where you took this poem, was a bumpy ride for sure. I don't have any nits on it but I thought it was beautiful.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by Perry » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:44 am

It sounds wonderful, but I don't understand it. I'll have to wait for others to comment.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by Luce » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:40 am

Hi Mac,

I think I know what the reference is. Does it have to do with Sir Robert Dudley, a longtime favorite of Queen Elizabeth the 1st.

It was thought that he killed his wife just so he can have a chance of possibly marrying Queen Elizabeth. However, the scandal that arose from his wife's accidental death, took him out of the running.

I like the cold tone of the poem. You can almost imagine Sir Robert talking to himself in the poem.

I also like the alternate rhyme you used. However, it does read a little awkwardly especially in the 2ND stanza. I suspect that you metered this piece too which may have forced you to do some odd sentencing.

Would suggest some other word choices like tugs instead of plays for example. Maybe make it a little more sensual. After all, he's trying to seduce a queen.

Luce
Last edited by Luce on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by Macavity » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:18 am

Thank you Poet, Perry, and Luce.

Welcome back Luce and yes I was thinking of Dudley.
I like the cold tone of the poem.
Pleased that the calculating nature of the individual was evident. Will think about upping the sex and S2 syntax.

cheers

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by bjondon » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:10 pm

Hi mac, another scrumptious offering.
I found S3 a bit too plot summary/condensed text/catch-up.
Unless you are set on the Dudley connection being spelt out I would drop S3, change 'court' to 'courted' and 'He is bold' to 'He's bold.'
I really liked the modern inflection of 'No regrets.' intruding at that corner, echoing on the next.
Also there's a cheeky double pronounciation of that word 'sow' which I think could be read as implying he has buried her under the thyme. Though can you grow thyme into a hedge?
Jules

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Re: The Knot Garden (revised)

Post by Elphin » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:21 pm

Hello Mac

A poem that reads like a riddle. I too got the Dudley reference although I couldn't remember his name. Might be a difficult poem without this background. Would Dudley's Knot Garden as a title help the reader?

There is a feeling of a Shakespeare play about the poem with lots of word play .... Knot Garden = Gordian Knot, did you mean that? Thyme/Time, Sow/So ... that feels appropriate for the plotting atmosphere at the Royal Court.

Quibbles ... deceit/counterfeit rhyme in s1 created an expectation of such rhymes throughout. It was a disappointment not to find them.

"Design will purpose him to please" - struggled with the sentence structure here.

Apart from this a very satisfying read. A poem worth studying.

elph

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:24 pm

Though can you grow thyme into a hedge?
Well, they're like 'little' hedges to me:

https://www.theenglishgarden.co.uk/expert-advice/design-solutions/design_tudor_garden_style_1_3833392/
I found S3 a bit too plot summary/condensed text/catch-up.
Fair enough Jules, though the intention was to show the 'corrupted'.

best

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:30 pm

"Design will purpose him to please" - struggled with the sentence structure here.
Thanks Elph. I've revisited that line.
Quibbles ... deceit/counterfeit rhyme in s1 created an expectation of such rhymes throughout. It was a disappointment not to find them.
I don't hear the rhyme there (sight rhyme?)

best

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Elphin » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Hey Mac

I think it’s a pronunciation thing

Counter - feet

Counter - fit

You say tomato.... I say tomatto

Cheers

elph

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by NotQuiteSure » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Macavity wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 am
a clipped bush
Isn't this tantamount to treason? :)


.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:04 pm

I think it’s a pronunciation thing

Counter - feet

Counter - fit

You say tomato.... I say tomatto

:lol: I see...and hear from North of the Border :D

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:05 pm

NotQuiteSure wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:03 pm
Macavity wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 am
a clipped bush
Isn't this tantamount to treason? :)


.
Nope...it is a way of releasing the scent from the herbs :)

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Perry » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:07 pm

For whatever it's worth -- and sorry to disagree with Jules -- but no part of the poem reads to me like plot summary. It sounds creative throughout.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 am

Thanks Perry. The Tudors had a taste for plotting, gardens and other schemes :)

best

mac

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Re: Dudley's Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by NotQuiteSure » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 pm

.
Hi mac,
I thought Dudley/Elizabeth clear enough (don't think having Dudley in the title helps though, could be a place name).

Even with the ironic emphasis on fell, 'his wife fell down the stairs' is a bit dull. Not your style but
with thyme. It was a scented night
when death befell his wife. He is bold.

Just a thought or two on S3 (which also works well as a beginning)

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
conceit from below perfumed bliss;
under that whiff of shame, a shiver
- The Queen will bend beneath his kiss.
(Pity this doesn't have an equivalent ending to 'No regrets/He is bold')


Enjoyed the read.


Regards, Not


.

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Luce » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:41 am

Do like NOT's suggestion for the last stanza. I was also thinking about bend rather than burning kiss.

Like your latest revision of stanza 2.

Luce
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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am

Thanks Not and Luce. I have restored the title. Will ponder your suggestions Not. Despite was used for moral consideration and for threading in the soundscape...design/deceit. The concluding line was to reflect her desire and power...bend shifts that to him rather than her. I do prefer the more understated a

best

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by NotQuiteSure » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:39 am

.
Hi mac,
like the inclusion of 'intent', rescues 'his wife fell ...' as far as I'm concerned, so I withdraw my previous objection to the line. :) But those 'clipped hedges' ... It's pedantic, I admit, but not sure how a low hedge (clipped or otherwise) 'enfolds'.

Just a thought for S1, 'those fragrant quarters' instead of 'his fragrant garden' (to avoid repeating 'garden' The “compartiments” [of a knot garden] were known as “plots”, “quarters” or “squares” ... apparently.)

Still think 'burning' is a weakness. Anything 'garden' based?


Regards, Not


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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 pm

Thanks again Not. I've tweaked the repetition. I'm fine with my concluding line because it has the element of assertion and compulsion I want and the passion/consequence/hell thing. Unless I can think of some appropriate greenery to fire up, then it stays :D

best

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by JJWilliamson » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:46 am

Hi, mac

Enjoyed this poem, although it took me some time to make the connection to Robert Dudley. However, I see the others have no such problem
and will therefore say little or nothing about reinstating "Dudley" :)

The meter is delicious and helps to contribute an ironic clip to the proceedings, culminating in that wry closing line. I did wonder if there was enough on the plate for general consumption, mainly because you seem to be kind of teasing the reader with not quite enough. This is where I would have mentioned Dudley. :)

Metrically speaking, the iambic tetrameter is wonderfully tight and the rhymes make an unforced appearance, both of which add to the enjoyment and mood of this mysterious poem.

I paused at S2L2 " these clipped hedges will enfold". I get ... /these CLIPPED/ HEDGes/ WILL /enFOLD/ ... /iamb/troche/ ? /iamb/
OR ... /these CLIPPED/ HEDG/es WILL/ enFOLD/ ...iamb/ ? /iamb/iamb/. Are you a syllable short or are you allocating a stress to 'these' to create a headless iamb? I ask because the rest is so tight. You might be using a spondee with /CLIPPED HEDG/ for the sake of emphasis and to slow the reader down, and to be honest it reads well. So, what's up, mac? (sorry)

Overall, an intriguing piece that I enjoyed, once I made the connection.

Best

JJ
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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:38 pm

and to be honest it reads well. So, what's up, mac?
That's my usual shrug, but to be honest... I was hearing clip/t for clipped and so two syllables...wrong...duly edited.

Pleased you enjoyed JJ (I feel making the connection is part of the 'enjoyment')

best

mac

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by David » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:51 pm

Maybe I don't know enough of the historical fact - although I thought I did (so that's been sobering) - but I'm not getting much of a true Elizabethan buzz from this, Mac. It didn't (apart from the title, I admit) seem grounded in any particular time at all. It all just seems too abstract and bloodless.

Was it called Dudley's Knot Garden at first? That would have helped, but even with that I don't think I'd have felt that you'd brought me close to the events themselves.

My failing rather than yours, perhaps. That's not at all unlikely.

Cheers

David

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Re: The Knot Garden (revision2)

Post by Macavity » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:23 pm

I thought I'd tone it down after my 'Ken Russell' poem :)

David wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:51 pm
Maybe I don't know enough of the historical fact - although I thought I did (so that's been sobering) - but I'm not getting much of a true Elizabethan buzz from this, Mac. It didn't (apart from the title, I admit) seem grounded in any particular time at all. It all just seems too abstract and bloodless.

Was it called Dudley's Knot Garden at first? That would have helped, but even with that I don't think I'd have felt that you'd brought me close to the events themselves.

My failing rather than yours, perhaps. That's not at all unlikely.

Cheers

David

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Re: Robert Dudley - The Knot Garden (revision3)

Post by Luce » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:09 am

Well, you got the Elizabethan flavor in it fer sure. But, unfortunately, it sounds a little confusing and stiff..

Macavity wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 am
revision3

No wifely tears to stain and mute
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit unruffled inside
his fragrant scheming. No regrets.

The unruffled what in his scheming?

Design will pleasure her: these borders

OK

of thyme, those beds of marigold,

OK

will thread intent. A scented night

Whoa!!! You went from describing a
pleasant seductive garden to wifey poo falling down the stairs.

Too sharp a turn for me.


his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
the silk from under perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, his lips
- this Queen must pluck his cunning kiss.

Ok. A little more sex. I'm all for sex. Not sure if you can pluck a kiss though? But, I'm assuming you put pluck to reference the garden imagery above so it's ok by me.

In the end, I like revision 2 the most.



revision2.

No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit is safe inside
his fragrant scheming. No regrets.

Design will pleasure her and him:
these threaded hedges will enfold
intent. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is cold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
conceit from under perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, a shiver
- this Queen must have her burning kiss.



revised


No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No court gossip to fret.
This counterfeit is safe inside
his formal garden. No regrets.

Design will purpose him to please,
a clipped hedge will sow the cold
with thyme. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, unlaces
conceit beneath the perfumed bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, she shivers
- a Queen must have her burning kiss.





original


No wifely tears to wash away
deceit. No gossip breeze to fret.
This counterfeit is safe today
inside his garden. No regrets.

Symmetry will suck from clouds the light,
a clipped hedge will sow the cold
with thyme. It was a scented night
his wife fell down the stairs. He is bold.

He plays with royal pearls, withers
conceit beneath the bloom of his bliss;
despite that whiff of shame, she shivers
- a Queen must have her burning kiss.
"She acts like summer, walks like rain." - Train

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