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Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm
by JJWilliamson
When the robin’s
brazen chitter
squanders
early evening’s
promise

the golden billed
songsters
never
forget to trill
about love

Fuck the singing
cawed the crow


Revision 2

This golden billed
songster
never
forgets to trill
about love

whilst the robin’s
brazen chitter
squanders
early evening’s
promise


Revision

This golden billed
songster
never
forgets to trill
about love

whilst the robin’s
brazen chitter
squanders
early evening’s
peace


Original

This golden billed
songster
never
forgets to trill
about love,
when the robin’s
fearsome chitter
squanders
early evening’s
peace.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:41 am
by Perry
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm
This golden billed
songster
never
forgets to trill
about love,
when the robin’s
fearsome chitter
squanders
early evening’s
peace.
This is a nice little poem. It reminds me of a haiku, though it is about twice the length.

My only suggestion is that "when" be changed to "while". Otherwise, you seem to be suggesting that there is some coordination or relationship between the two birds.

It's just my personal preference, but I don't like it when a poet puts single words on lines by themselves. To me it feels like an artificial way to provide emphasis.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:26 pm
by Mirrorball
Hi JJ,

The interesting thing about your poem, for me, is the rhythm and pauses due to line breaks remind me of the two distinct bird song in each half of the poem.

I understand that robin calls can be territorial but they can also be mate calling. Both birds are known for singing at night or in the evening. I guess you went for evening peace because there's a full chorus in the morning.

'Squandering' is an unusual word choice that I would normally associate with something materialistic. That makes me wonder if there's more going on than I'm capable of reading. As a pure observation of nature I enjoyed it. :)

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:44 pm
by Macavity
I do protest JJ, the Robin can trill with the best...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrw9xPCFtYw

Anyway back to your playful poem: the blackbird playing to the audience; the robin's audience preferring the peace.

JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm
This golden billed...top billing :)
songster
never
forgets to trill ...crowd pleaser
about love,
when the robin’s
fearsome chitter...most unmusical
squanders..........could have used the opportunity to take centre stage
early evening’s
peace.
Which poet would you prefer to be :) ?

enjoyed

mac

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:17 pm
by JJWilliamson
Thank you very much for the great comments and thoughts, Perry, Mirror and mac. Much appreciated.
Perry wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:41 am
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm
This golden billed
songster
never
forgets to trill
about love,
when the robin’s
fearsome chitter
squanders
early evening’s
peace.
This is a nice little poem. It reminds me of a haiku, though it is about twice the length. ...Ah, a haikuesque poem! I wonder if it could be condensed into haiku form. (modern, that is). I'll have a look at that one.

My only suggestion is that "when" be changed to "while". Otherwise, you seem to be suggesting that there is some coordination or relationship between the two birds. ...Not a bad point and definitely one to consider.

It's just my personal preference, but I don't like it when a poet puts single words on lines by themselves. To me it feels like an artificial way to provide emphasis. ...Interesting point again. The poem is metered (a couple of substitutions included) and I DID isolate those words for the very reasons you cite, although 'peace' is meant to carry a soft stress.

*************************************************************************************************************************

Mirrorball wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Hi JJ,

The interesting thing about your poem, for me, is the rhythm and pauses due to line breaks remind me of the two distinct bird song in each half of the poem. ...Good to read that, Mirror.

I understand that robin calls can be territorial but they can also be mate calling. Both birds are known for singing at night or in the evening. I guess you went for evening peace because there's a full chorus in the morning. ...The territorial robin is notoriously angry when it feels threatened and has a shockingly penetrating distress call. It's other calls are beautifully mellifluous. The evening peace around my garden is often disturbed by the robin, my great friend and the subject of more than a few of my poems. Love them.

'Squandering' is an unusual word choice that I would normally associate with something materialistic. ...The peace is something to savour and enjoy, yet the robin squanders the moment. I thought about it as a word choice and might just change it yet.

That makes me wonder if there's more going on than I'm capable of reading. As a pure observation of nature I enjoyed it. :) ...It is essentially just that, "An observation of nature", yet there is a touch more, although nothing startling. There is, I'd hoped, a thread of hope present with the optimistic blackbird restoring harmony where there was discord. That lilting call is always there to soothe, and there truly can be light at the end of the tunnel. :)


***************************************************************************************************************************************


Macavity wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:44 pm
I do protest JJ, the Robin can trill with the best ...A fair protestation, mac, and one I can't really argue with, except when the robin is distressed. The robin never chitters at me but does if I'm talking to a neighbour over the fence. Strange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVD7dtXRdQo


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrw9xPCFtYw

Anyway back to your playful poem: the blackbird playing to the audience; the robin's audience preferring the peace.

JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:46 pm
This golden billed...top billing :)
songster
never
forgets to trill ...crowd pleaser
about love,
when the robin’s
fearsome chitter...most unmusical
squanders..........could have used the opportunity to take centre stage
early evening’s
peace.
Which poet would you prefer to be :) ? ...Now there's a question. :)

enjoyed

mac

************************************************************************************************************************************

Best to all, and once again thanks for the great comments.

JJ

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am
by Charles
I liked this JJ,

Enjoyed it more when I read the comments, my knowledge of ornithology leaves a little to be desired. :)

I count myself educated and entertained.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:28 pm
by JJWilliamson
Pleased you liked, Charles, and thanks for the entertaining comments. Appreciated.

Best

JJ
Charles wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am
I liked this JJ,

Enjoyed it more when I read the comments, my knowledge of ornithology leaves a little to be desired. :)

I count myself educated and entertained.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:44 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi JJ,

I'm clearly missing something
as I can't work out why the blackbird
it trilling about love to a territorial robin.
(it's that pesky 'when', as Perry noted)
Help.

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:35 pm
by JJWilliamson
Thanks, Not, for the once over. Always appreciated.

Ah, the wording is causing some confusion and I must address that problem. It's really a metaphor about optimism,
where the robin rages wildly when it feels threatened or challenged. Through the commotion the blackbird invites
all and sundry, especially female blackbirds, to enjoy his aria; he sings sweetly of love. It's coincidental, as being
garden birds, they both share the same space. The robin is nearly always the last bird to stop singing btw, and as
mac says, it is quite heavenly. I might have pared this one down too much.

Change coming.

Best

JJ



NotQuiteSure wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:44 pm
.
Hi JJ,

I'm clearly missing something
as I can't work out why the blackbird
it trilling about love to a territorial robin.
(it's that pesky 'when', as Perry noted)
Help.

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:51 am
by NotQuiteSure
.
Before you get your pruning shears out JJ,
how about simply switching 'when' for 'whilst'?
(and maybe leave a space after L5)

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:29 am
by JJWilliamson
Thanks again, Not.

Changes made as per the suggestions.

The thing is, the word 'when' can sometimes mean "while". I've read much of the grammatical bumf and most suggest that "whilst" is a tad archaic and pretentious. Can't see it personally, but I wondered about simply using "while". I'm sure I've had this whilst v's while discussion before, yet for the life of me I can't remember how it concluded. Anyway, the revision is up, sans punctuation.

Best

JJ
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:51 am
.
Before you get your pruning shears out JJ,
how about simply switching 'when' for 'whilst'?
(and maybe leave a space after L5)

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird (revision 2)

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:48 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi JJ.
I Like it with the new spacing,
but you're right about 'whilst',
bum steer! Maybe the softer 'as'?
(Or even an additional line,
'in those moments

when the ...
' ?)
I preferred 'fearsome' to 'brazen'
(is there room for a description
of the robin akin to 'golden billed' ?)
Not sure about 'squanders', but my
track record on this one isn't great
so maybe just ignore me :)

And to reinforce that last point:
keep 'whilst' (or reinstate 'when')
but switch the order of the verses!
(Would read as more 'optimistic'
this way, I think)

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird (revision 2)

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:38 am
by JJWilliamson
Not a bad idea, Not.

I'm looking at switching the order, and as daft as this sounds, I never gave it a thought until you mentioned it.

Yes, I'm still twisting my face at 'whilst', so a change might well be in order. I'm not keen on "while" either but that
could just be a passing moment.

Thanks again

JJ
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:48 pm
.
Hi JJ.
I Like it with the new spacing,
but you're right about 'whilst',
bum steer! Maybe the softer 'as'?
(Or even an additional line,
'in those moments

when the ...
' ?)
I preferred 'fearsome' to 'brazen' ...I might look for another slant rhyme. The word 'brazen' suits the attitude, or perceived attitude, of the territorial robin, but there could well be a better option out there.
(is there room for a description
of the robin akin to 'golden billed' ?) ...I like the bill trill rhyme too much.
Not sure about 'squanders', but my
track record on this one isn't great
so maybe just ignore me :) ...Well, you're the second person to mention it so I am taking notice. I really like the possibilities it brings, though.

And to reinforce that last point:
keep 'whilst' (or reinstate 'when')
but switch the order of the verses!
(Would read as more 'optimistic'
this way, I think)

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird (revision 2)

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:20 pm
by NotQuiteSure
JJWilliamson wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:38 am
I like the bill trill rhyme too much.
Apologies JJ, I should have been clearer. I wasn't suggesting changing that line
but finding an equivalent one for the robin. ((Give them equal billing ... ahem.)

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Blackbird (revision 2)

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:34 am
by JJWilliamson
Not to worry, Not

I'm putting a new revision up, which moves in a new direction. See what you think. :)

JJ

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:42 pm
by NotQuiteSure
.
Hi JJ.
Like the revision (made me laugh), though
it might be a little punchier if it was
'Fuck your singing' .
Not keen on the alliteration of 'cawed the crow'
(doesn't really fit with 'fuck', needs to be snarling
or screaming or something).
The new title doesn't work but the original does.
What is a crow if not a black bird?

Regards, Not.

.

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:07 am
by JJWilliamson
Thanks again, Not

Some interesting points there.
NotQuiteSure wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:42 pm
.
Hi JJ.
Like the revision (made me laugh), though ...Ha! It made me laugh too. I'm easily pleased. :)
it might be a little punchier if it was
'Fuck your singing' . ...Either or, I'd say.
Not keen on the alliteration of 'cawed the crow' ...Fair enough. I am, however, very partial to the alliteration, feeling 'cawed' was a pretty good choice. Takes all sorts.
(doesn't really fit with 'fuck', needs to be snarling
or screaming or something). ...The caw is an intensely grating sound, even menacing, I'd have thought.
The new title doesn't work but the original does.
What is a crow if not a black bird? ...Well, I thought about that but quite liked the dubious reference to birds as in "chicks" or "skirt". You know, Ladies. Seemed to fit in with the raucous and vulgar crow.

Regards, Not.

.
Best

JJ

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:31 pm
by Harbal
I'm too new to poetry to be able to give a meaningful opinion, except to say, whichever version you settle on, I think you should include the crow's contribution.

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:56 pm
by bjondon
Hi JJ,
here's a brazen hybridization:

the robin's brazen chitter
squanders
the evening's promise

the evening's promise
respoken
by
the golden
beaked beaked blackbird

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:20 pm
by churinga
Hi JJ

When the robin’s brazen chitter
squanders early evening’s promise
I think the first verse has this metrical patten.

The second verse, if i was reciting the poem, I would read as

The golden billed songsters
never forget
to trill
about love.


The last two lines are funny, prompted me to remember 'Heckle and Jeckle' the cartoon crows.

all the best

Ross

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:41 pm
by Macavity
Fuck the singing
cawed the crow
Killer ending JJ.

Re: Birds [language warning] (revision 3)

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:27 pm
by JJWilliamson
Thank you very much, Harbal, bj, Ross and Mac, for the thoughtful comments. Appreciated.

Harbal wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:31 pm
I'm too new to poetry to be able to give a meaningful opinion, except to say, whichever version you settle on, I think you should include the crow's contribution. ...New or not, your opinion counts because you are very much a valued reader. I will definitely keep the crow in some capacity or other. Thanks for mentioning it.
bjondon wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:56 pm
Hi JJ,
here's a brazen hybridization:

the robin's brazen chitter
squanders
the evening's promise

the evening's promise
respoken
by
the golden
beaked beaked blackbird ...Nothing wrong with a touch of hybridization, bj. (first time I've ever used that word.) :)
I'm looking closely at your suggestions.
churinga wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:20 pm
Hi JJ

When the robin’s brazen chitter
squanders early evening’s promise
I think the first verse has this metrical patten.

The second verse, if i was reciting the poem, I would read as

The golden billed songsters
never forget
to trill
about love. ...Ah, there's a meter running through the entire poem, all be it fairly loose. As soon as you introduce anapests, as a substitution, into the mix the meter seems to wobble a bit. Some of the single words are positioned for extra emphasis. I think the rhythm is fairly steady, but I'd have to scrutinise it further to be sure.


The last two lines are funny, prompted me to remember 'Heckle and Jeckle' the cartoon crows. ...The last two lines were a prompt from a friend.

all the best

Ross
Macavity wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:41 pm
Fuck the singing
cawed the crow
Killer ending JJ. ...Ha! I enjoyed the idea as soon as a friend of mine mentioned the possibilities. Made me laugh.
Thanks again to all for the great replies to this piece,

Best

JJ