Žižka

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Joao
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Žižka

Post by Joao » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:57 am

'[Jan Žižka] wished to be flayed after his death and that, of his skin,
a drum should be made to be carried to war against his enemies'
-Montaigne

The Father must forgive the flesh
that is tepid with his promise:
an impalpable kingdom,
the insipid communion up above,
not to stir
thing
or man.

My distant rumour, portentous,
shall stun the hostile ear.
I will rise again! as the Son among the chosen,
who at my sound will march across the miry plains.
My pulse will rouse their pace,
my pace impel their spirit,
when at last,
in the throb of a charge
through the din of the fight,
of the clash,
I’m reborn.

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Re: Žižka

Post by David » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:03 pm

S2 is agreeably belligerent, Joao, and works well on that level. I'm puzzled by S1, though. I don't see the connection, either to S2 or to the epigraph. (Or is it - a sudden thought - Zizka foregoing the opportunity to enter a milquetoast heaven?)

While following up on your Montaigne reference, I came across this wonderful snippet: "It is putting a very high price on one's conjectures to have someone roasted alive on their account."

That's great, isn't it?

Cheers

David

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Re: Žižka

Post by trobbo44 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:08 am

I take it we are talking about Jesus (Son with a capital S).
Last line stanza should read I am reborn, far more gravitas than 'I'm reborn', I think).
Strong, rousing to arms, poem. I don't know what the Muslims would make of it, but as a Christian call to arms, it has merit.

The second coming of Christ our Lord is not far away.

I found the poem to be a tad zealous overall and brought an agression that I would hope won't be brought when the time comes, only peace.

It could lose some of the flowery bits, or at least reshape them, ie 'my distant thunder.... stanza one, lines one an two

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Re: Žižka

Post by Joao » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:46 pm

Your sudden thought is correct, David: not only a milquetoast but an ethereal, discarnate heaven. Your Montaigne quote is indeed great and much to the point in Žižka’s case, he and his people having resisted Catholic persecution. (Montaigne is full of this lucid scepticism about the powers of reason, part of his classical heritage).

Thanks, trobbo. I agree that ‘I am’ instead of ‘I’m’ would have sounded graver but it would also have broken the anapaestic metre I was trying to sustain in the final lines. Žižka was probably a zealot, yes (I obviously didn’t mean the poem as a sermon of my own), but I don’t think this is the most interesting thing about the story. It was his take on afterlife (or what I imagined it to be) that attracted me. A jazz drummer might’ve been equally appealing.

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Re: Žižka

Post by Katherine » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:57 pm

The Father must forgive the flesh
that is tepid with his promise:
an impalpable kingdom,
the insipid communion up above,
not to stir
thing
or man.

My distant rumour, portentous,
shall stun the hostile ear.
I will rise again! as the Son among the chosen,
who at my sound will march across the miry plains.
My pulse will rouse their pace,
my pace impel their spirit,
when at last,
in the throb of a charge
through the din of the fight,
of the clash,
I’m reborn.

The Prince of Peace would be so proud! ha!
I can't really judge this as a poem, because it sounds, to me, like prose - as well as the rantings of a maniac!
But, it had me googling - it's very interesting and a little bit scary. x

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Re: Žižka

Post by Joao » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:30 pm

Thanks, Katherine

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Re: Žižka

Post by bodkin » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:28 am

Hi Joao,

I needed the epigram and I did Google Jan Žižka a little before reading.

Like David, I liked the end, although I think "I am reborn" would have a better rhythm?

Before that I was also rather floundering:

"The Father must forgive the flesh
that is tepid with his promise:
an impalpable kingdom,
the insipid communion up above,
not to stir
thing
or man."

Read very wishy-washy so that I'm not sure what you were trying to say... Is this the character criticising somebody else's dogma for being tepid, insipid and impalpable? Or is it you criticising him for the same defects? Or is it him acknowledging the same defects in himself? Or is he merely saying that the flesh cannot live up to the standards of the spirit? Possibly my problem hinges around "promise" since I don't know who is promising what to whom... Presumably we're somewhere in the area of a priests promising a heaven but I'd need many more details to entirely understand your intent.

Ian
http://www.ianbadcoe.uk/

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Re: Žižka

Post by Joao » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:27 pm

Thanks, Ian. I meant this as a dramatic monologue, Žižka's voice throughout. In S1, he confesses his apathy for the promise of heavenly salvation, the Father's promise (to him, Žižka). In S2, Žižka imagines an afterlife more appealing than that unfleshly heaven.

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Re: Žižka

Post by Macavity » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:40 pm

I meant this as a dramatic monologue, Žižka's voice throughout.
Perhaps the title could direct the reader: 'The Voice of Žižka' . I thought S2 captured that voice.

Just a thought given the previous reader assumptions.

best

mac

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