love & loss (alternative)

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love & loss (alternative)

Postby JJWilliamson » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:39 pm

I wondered about a trim. (IE)

feelings
are abstract
until
she smiles

until
you hold
her

until
she kisses
your brow

and leaves
a letter


Final Revision

feelings
are abstract
until
she smiles

~ ~ ~

feelings
are abstract
until
you hold
her

~ ~ ~

feelings
are abstract
until
she kisses
your brow

~ ~ ~

Feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the letter


Original and revisions

feelings
are abstract
until
you fall

Revision

feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them
Last edited by JJWilliamson on Fri May 19, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby ton321 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:56 am

Like the way the title plays off/compliments the poem itself. I'm not usually too keen on super-short pieces, but there is enough to think about here, in a riddle like way, that makes me think it actually works!
Tony.
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Counting the slow heart beats,
The bleeding to death of time in slow heart beats,
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:17 am

Thanks, Tony

The poem is short and entirely abstract. I wondered if the emotions could be tweaked without
a tangible image. Would the reader's experiences kick in to finish the poem from its many angles.

It's reader led. Thanks for that.

Best

JJ
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Luce » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:54 pm

JJWilliamson wrote:Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


How about "until" rather than "unless".The poem does kind of beg for an image but it can be viewed as reader led, in this case.

It kind of reminds me of a famous misquoted quote by Mike Tyson (former Heavy Weight Champion). The quote involved an abstract and image.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

Luce

P.S. In an interview Mike Tyson had before a big fight, he talked about the quote. He said that what he actually said was "everybody has a plan until they get hit".


.
She'll make you take your clothes off and go dancing in the rain
She'll make you live her crazy life but she'll take away your pain,
like a bullet to your brain.

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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Firebird » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:58 pm

I think it needs an image after 'unless'. Without this, it just seems a bit colourless/empty to me.

Cheers,

Tristan
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Macavity » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:09 am

hi JJ

The absence of a concrete image points to your use of abstract, but not to unless/you feel them. A progression, even ironic, would be an image - to work against abstract and to work for feel. The title does play with Love (abstract) and reality (abandonment), but the narrative has no hook - taste/sound/sight/smell/touch. You have capitalised, but not used a full-stop?

hope that helps some

best

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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:52 am

Luce wrote:
JJWilliamson wrote:Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


How about "until" rather than "unless".The poem does kind of beg for an image but it can be viewed as reader led, in this case.

It kind of reminds me of a famous misquoted quote by Mike Tyson (former Heavy Weight Champion). The quote involved an abstract and image.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

Luce

Thanks, Luce

This poem is an experiment. Is there enough on the plate, I thought to myself.
I like 'until' and love the Tyson quotes. Spot on. "The best-laid plans of mice and men".

P.S. In an interview Mike Tyson had before a big fight, he talked about the quote. He said that what he actually said was "everybody has a plan until they get hit". ...I think the first one is more honest. :)

JJ


Firebird wrote:I think it needs an image after 'unless'. Without this, it just seems a bit colourless/empty to me.

Cheers,

Tristan

Thanks, Tristan.

I was trying to evoke some feelings with the minimum amount of input. I've an image in mind.

JJ



Macavity wrote:hi JJ

The absence of a concrete image points to your use of abstract, but not to unless/you feel them. A progression, even ironic, would be an image - to work against abstract and to work for feel. The title does play with Love (abstract) and reality (abandonment), but the narrative has no hook - taste/sound/sight/smell/touch. You have capitalised, but not used a full-stop?

hope that helps some

best

mac

Thanks, mac

Yes, it does help. The consensus condemns this wee number. Concrete image coming up. I'll drop the cap'.

Best

JJ
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Lou » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:22 am

To be contrary, I prefer the original. 'Tweet' is such a humdrum word - we don't need it spelling out - your title says everything.

Best,
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Macavity » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:02 am

JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


Love in the modern world reduced to a minimal word commuincation (what happened to love letters!) Perhaps the title could be hardened to Concise.

The revision gets a thumbs up from me - a poem rather than a statement.

best

mac
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Luce » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:35 am

I definitely like the revision. I like the use of tweet even though years from now, if someone read your poem, I'm sure they would ask "What's a tweet? But, who cares. It's a fun little number to ponder on.

Luce


JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them
She'll make you take your clothes off and go dancing in the rain
She'll make you live her crazy life but she'll take away your pain,
like a bullet to your brain.

Livin' La Vida Loca - Ricky Martin
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:01 am

Thank you very much Lou, mac and Luce

Lou wrote:To be contrary, I prefer the original. 'Tweet' is such a humdrum word - we don't need it spelling out - your title says everything.

Best,
Lou


Ah, the voice of contrariness is a great leveller. I've never tweeted in my life. I thought email was too passé. :D

Macavity wrote:
JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


Love in the modern world reduced to a minimal word communication (what happened to love letters!) Perhaps the title could be hardened to Concise.

The revision gets a thumbs up from me - a poem rather than a statement.

best

mac


Thanks for the thumbs up, mac. I thought about letter, facebook, message, email, missive then settled for tweet. Might change my mind.


Luce wrote:I definitely like the revision. I like the use of tweet even though years from now, if someone read your poem, I'm sure they would ask "What's a tweet? But, who cares. It's a fun little number to ponder on.

Luce


JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


Yes, at the speed of computer development it will be out of date in no time at all. I agree; let's live for the moment. :)

Best to all

JJ
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Crayon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:34 pm

JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them



Hmm... interesting... those two conditions (of the title) make ontologists of us all. But are "feelings" ever really "abstract", or are they more: known or unknown? Here's a thought:

Feelings:
abstract, until
you feel their heat.
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:45 am

Thanks again, Crayon, for your thoughtful analysis. Appreciated.

Crayon wrote:
JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them



Hmm... interesting... those two conditions (of the title) make ontologists of us all. But are "feelings" ever really "abstract", or are they more: known or unknown? Here's a thought: ...I think love is abstract where love-making is concrete. It's a moot point.

Feelings:
abstract, until
you feel their heat. ...This would work on more than one level. I like the concision very much. I feel another revision coming on. :)


Best

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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Crayon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:07 pm

JJWilliamson wrote:...I think love is abstract where love-making is concrete. It's a moot point.


OK, so how do we moot this? And where? In the great oakenhall of Jaywulf! [I'm trying to be Anglo-Saxon with the moot. :)]

I would agree that "love", as a word with definitions, is abstract, (or an abstraction?) but the 'feelings' that we crave, experience and miss are not. Or are they?
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Luce » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:49 pm

Crayon wrote:
JJWilliamson wrote:...I think love is abstract where love-making is concrete. It's a moot point.


OK, so how do we moot this? And where? In the great oakenhall of Jaywulf! [I'm trying to be Anglo-Saxon with the moot. :)]

I would agree that "love", as a word with definitions, is abstract, (or an abstraction?) but the 'feelings' that we crave, experience and miss are not. Or are they?


Maybe this will help the debate (Morris Albert / "Feelings"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ

Luce
She'll make you take your clothes off and go dancing in the rain
She'll make you live her crazy life but she'll take away your pain,
like a bullet to your brain.

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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby David » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:29 pm

Hi JJ,

I must be the man - or the old fogey - on the Clapham omnibus, because I'm not getting anything out of this. I far prefer you at your more discursive.

The man on the Clapham degustibus, I suppose.

Cheers

David
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:32 am

David wrote:Hi JJ,

I must be the man - or the old fogey - on the Clapham omnibus, because I'm not getting anything out of this. I far prefer you at your more discursive.

The man on the Clapham degustibus, I suppose.

Cheers

David


Ah, It's never going to be to everyone's taste. No problems at all, David, and thanks for popping in.

Maybe it would grow on you if you got a daysaver ticket. :)

Best

JJ
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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby Firebird » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:07 am

JJ, I've thought about this one for a while, and think you need something stronger than the tweet image to prop this one up. It's so short that the image really has to travel quite a way or the poem feels a bit empty. Just my opinion though.

Cheers,

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Re: Love and abandonment

Postby JJWilliamson » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:03 pm

Firebird wrote:JJ, I've thought about this one for a while, and think you need something stronger than the tweet image to prop this one up. It's so short that the image really has to travel quite a way or the poem feels a bit empty. Just my opinion though.

Cheers,

Tristan


Roger that, Tristan

I'll push it about a bit to see where it takes me. Thanks for that.

Best

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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby JJWilliamson » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:17 pm

Ok, Here's the final revision. (said that before)
Perhaps this helps to cover the moot points. :)

Blame Luce and Herb Alpert. I mean... :D

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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby Firebird » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:39 pm

I would prefer a specific description of a fall, without mentioning the word fall. 'Fall' is too abstract and used far too much to refer to love/mankind/morality.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers,

Tristan



JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you fall

Revision

feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them
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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby Luce » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:38 pm

JJWilliamson wrote:feelings
are abstract
until
you fall

Revision

feelings
are abstract
until
you read
the tweet

Original

Feelings
are abstract
unless
you feel them


JJ - Read latest revision. I'd rather have a more concrete image. Saying just "fall" is a little too vague.

Luce
She'll make you take your clothes off and go dancing in the rain
She'll make you live her crazy life but she'll take away your pain,
like a bullet to your brain.

Livin' La Vida Loca - Ricky Martin
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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby JJWilliamson » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:17 pm

Thanks again, Tristan and Luce.

I was thinking of fall down IE fail. It is also a wordplay for falling in love and those other things.

Until you
read her
body language/eyes/posture/gestures/tears...

Had this close on my mind.

JJ
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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby Luce » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:42 am

JJWilliamson wrote:Thanks again, Tristan and Luce.

I was thinking of fall down IE fail. It is also a wordplay for falling in love and those other things.

Until you
read her
body language/eyes/posture/gestures/tears...

Had this close on my mind.

JJ


How about an image as concrete as:

feelings are
abstract
until
she slaps
your face

feelings are
abstract
until
she holds
your hand

feeling are
abstract
until
you see
her tears

Luce
She'll make you take your clothes off and go dancing in the rain
She'll make you live her crazy life but she'll take away your pain,
like a bullet to your brain.

Livin' La Vida Loca - Ricky Martin
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Re: Love [Rev 2] (Was: Love and abandonment)

Postby JJWilliamson » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:31 pm

The more I think about this one, Luce, the more I see it could easily spill over into a sequence poem.

It's easy to say yes to all suggestions. :)

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